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Some LSU Fans Wanting Out Of The SEC? We Thought They Were The Tigers, Not The Chickens

purple-chickenIt might be time to hang a new nickname on Louisiana State University’s athletic teams.  Oh, sure, you know them as the Tigers, Fighting Tigers, and Bayou Bengals.  Fans of another generation will also remember LSU’s great 1958 team and a legendary defense nicknamed the Chinese Bandits.  (If you’ve ever wondered why the school’s band plays this during games, now you know.)

But it might be time to apply a fresh moniker to LSU’s teams.  If Scott Rabalais’ Christmas column from The Baton Rouge Advocate captures the mood in the Tiger fanbase these days, “Chickens” might be a more fitting handle.

In case you missed it, the long-time Louisiana scribe claimed yesterday that “the time has come” for LSU to consider leaving the Southeastern Conference:

 

“LSU is a charter member of the SEC dating to 1933, but that doesn’t mean it has to stay there forever.  Not if there are other, appealing options out there.”

 

Rabalais claims the SEC is “imbalanced” with unfair football scheduling and bad bowl politics.  He also claims that the conference office “frequently indicates it is ignoring LSU’s concerns and needs.”  His answer?  The Big XII.

There’s nothing more annoying — for someone who has no rooting interest in an SEC team — than hearing fans of all 14 schools claim that their school is the one most-hated by Mike Slive, screwed over most often by the league office, and repeatedly treated like Cinderella, yada, yada, yada.

Unless it’s someone in the media giving such paranoid beliefs a boost.   That’s more annoying.  Now, Rabalais also posted a companion piece suggesting that LSU should stay in the SEC, but by posting the “go” piece he opens the topic for debate.  And several readers agreed with his “go” take rather than his “stay” take under his story and on LSU messageboards.

Rabalais has a right to his opinion — he’s a darned good writer — and he’s sure to get the backing of a few Tiger fans on his “go” piece.  But the idea of LSU leaving the SEC is absurd.  Or at least it should be.

 

1.  It’s claimed that the SEC’s makeshift 2013 schedule does “a disservice” to LSU in forcing the Tigers to play Georgia and Florida from the East while Alabama gets Tennessee and Kentucky from that division.  Now, there have been times when LSU’s East Division schedule was easier than Alabama’s, but 2013 is the year at hand and therefore it will get 100% of the attention.

In 2012, complaints came out of Columbia (South Carolina would face LSU and Arkansas while Georgia would face Ole Miss and Auburn), Starkville (MSU would have to make a return trip to Lexington), and Columbia (Missouri would have to return to Texas A&M for a third-straight year).  Until the SEC arrives at a new permanent plan, complaining will continue.  And once the new permanent plan is unveiled… there will be more complaining.

For the 2012 and 2013 football seasons, the SEC has cobbled together schedules with the help of administrators from each school who agreed to give and take in certain areas.  They’ve been called “bridge” schedules as the SEC has continued to work to try and finalize its long-term solution.  (The likely holdups on that plan are SEC’s new television network and the possibility of further expansion.)  But LSU isn’t the only team getting a bad break in next season’s “bridge” schedule.  Georgia will have to return Auburn, Texas A&M to Ole Miss, and Ole Miss to Alabama for the second season in a row.  The Tigers’ schedule is simply impacted by the ups and downs of the SEC.

Playing Florida is considered by some LSU fans as a real handicap for the Tigers, an insult, a challenge that’s just too tough.  But in 2011 the Gators went 6-6 in the regular season.  In fact, UF has lost four or more games in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2010 and 2011.  Will Muschamp led the Gators to an 11-1 record this past season, but Florida has still had six mediocre years in its last 12.  So that’s the great cross the Bayou Bengals must bear?

 

2.  Rabalais — like so many LSU fans — believes “the biggest continuing flaw in SEC football scheduling is the concept of permanent, opposite-division opponents.”  Well, it’s not been a flaw when it comes to generating massive television contracts for the league.  LSU’s annual tilt with Florida is always a draw.  And it’s unlikely the Tiger athletic department has protested the playing of that game by refusing to cash its yearly TV checks.

In addition, we would argue that permanent opponents are one of the best things for the SEC.  In 1992, the league split it’s six traditional power teams — Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU and Tennessee — evenly.  Three went to the East and three to the West (which is why Auburn is in the West Division rather than Vanderbilt).  Then-commissioner Roy Kramer and crew kept two of the league’s signature rivalries alive (Alabama-Tennessee and Auburn-Georgia), paired the other two “haves” together as well (LSU-Florida), tried to kickstart a rivalry with the league’s new additions (Arkansas-South Carolina), and let the four remaining traditional “have-nots” pair up (Ole Miss-Vandy, Kentucky-MSU).

Would it be more fair or make network executives happier to create more non-marquee matchups each season?  Would the league write a refund check to CBS and ESPN in years when Alabama and LSU had bouts with Kentucky and Vanderbilt, respectively, on their schedules?

The other issue here is that football is cyclical.  Alabama is a dominant force now, but since 2000, the Crimson Tide has lost nine games in a season once (2003), eight games in a season once (2000), seven games in a season once (2006), six games in a season twice (2004, 2007), and five games in a season once (2001).  For all the fear of Bama, the Tide has suffered five or more defeats in six of the last 13 seasons.  Alabama is up now, but they’ve had some serious downs in recent years.  Eventually, they’ll fall off again as part of the ongoing cycle.

Georgia was just 14-12 over a two-season span heading into 2011.  Since then the Dawgs have gone 21-6.  Down, then up.

Tennessee has won more SEC football titles than any school not named Alabama and they are the last school to win back-to-back league titles (in 1997 and 1998).  But the Vols are now in a down-cycle and haven’t lost fewer than four games in any season since 2004.  They will rise again at some point.  America’s biggest programs always do.

LSU is currently on an up-cycle (which apparently a few folks in the Pelican State have forgotten or are choosing to ignore).  The Tigers have won four SEC crowns since 2001.  But between 2001 and 1986, LSU claimed but one SEC title and it was a co-championship in 1988.  In fact, in the 14-season span from ’88 to ’01, LSU lost four or more games 11 times and suffered eight losing seasons.  That’s right.  Eight losing seasons in 14 years.

Perhaps the Tigers should have left the conference during that run of bad football.

As for Florida, well, we’ve already shown you their highs and lows over the past decade.  If LSU fans or the school’s administration are too scared to play a team that’s had six seasons of four or more losses since 2002, then maybe it would be better for all concerned if the Tigers did hit the bricks.

 

3.  Rabalais also claims that the “scheduling plan comes out of an SEC office in Birmingham, Ala., that fairly or not has long been seen as being too close to the Alabama campus — geographically and philosophically — for the rest of the conference’s good.”

Tell that one to Alabama fans who watched the SEC office clear Cam Newton to play in the 2010 Iron Bowl game (won by Newton and Auburn).  Tell that to Tide fans who steadfastly believed that former SEC commissioner Kramer — a Tennessee native! — worked in cahoots with ex-Vol coach Phillip Fulmer to bring down their beloved Bama in the 1990s.

There are conspiracy theorists wearing tin foil hats all across the SEC.  From Baton Rouge to both Columbias to, yes, Tuscaloosa.  If only someone could cast a logic spell on all those folks.

The league’s commissioner is put in place by the 14 schools of the SEC.  Those 14 schools could throw him out at any time.  So when someone claims Slive and the SEC office are showing favoritism toward one school over all the rest — it’s always Kentucky in basketball rather than nearby Alabama, mind you — that person is really saying that 13 league members are okey-dokey with School #14 getting favorable treatment over them.

It’s ridiculous.  It’s laughable.  It’s illogical.

Ironically, Rabalais and some Tiger fans believe the Big XII would be a good solution for what ails LSU.  Uh, yeah.  If Tiger fans think the SEC office in Birmingham is pro-Alabama, go for a spin in a league that really has been pushed and pulled apart by a single member.  Don’t like Bama playing Tennessee (sniffle, sniffle) while you play (whine, whine) Florida?  Go enjoy a league where Texas raked in $163 million in revenue in fiscal year 2011-12.  That’s just $57 million more than second-place Big XII breadwinner, Oklahoma.  It’s also about $50 million more than LSU earned in those same 12 months.  Would ya feel good about making $50 million less per year than a conference rival, Bengal fans?

Anyone pushing for LSU to move from the SEC to the Big XII should do themselves a favor and call the administrators at Texas A&M, Missouri, Colorado, and Nebraska.  It might be smart to get the real skinny on life in a fiefdom before volunteering to become a peasant

 

4.  Next on the list of complaints — “We don’t get to go to the bowl we want.”  Another old standard.  A number of SEC schools’ fans spew this gobbledygook every year.  Unfortunately we now live in a world with conference tie-ins to bowl games.  Because of that, there are only a limited number of destinations available to schools.  As a result, someone is always going to get the short end of the bowl stick.

Them’s the breaks.

If college presidents don’t like the current set-up and would be willing to part with their guaranteed bowl tie-in money, the problem could be fixed with a simple bowl draft, an idea we’ve pushed in the past.  Short of that, there will always be some team that slides down the bowl list, has to go to the same town year after year, or faces a rematch with some team its played umpteen times in previous bowl games.

This year, LSU was one of six SEC teams with two or fewer losses to finish the season ranked inside the BCS top 10.  As everyone should know by now, bowls don’t pick teams based solely on rank.  Attendance and television drawing power are the bowls’ biggest concerns.  This year, the Tigers landed in the Chick-fil-A Bowl against Clemson.  That’s a match up of two top 15 teams that have played just twice in more than a century.  That bowl also happens to have the seventh-largest payout of all 35 postseason games.

So what’s the rub?  LSU wanted to go to the Cotton Bowl.  The Tigers beat Texas A&M and are ranked one spot ahead of the Aggies.  The SEC office should have — in some folks’ view — demanded that the committee in Arlington pick LSU instead of a Lone Star State team that happens to feature the most exciting player in college football.  But since mean ol’ Slive wouldn’t fight for the Bayou Benglas, they’ll have to make their fourth trip to the Chick-fil-A Bowl since 2000 and their fifth since 1996.  The horror.

This isn’t the first time a highly-rated SEC has fallen all the way to the Chick-fil-A Bowl.  Tennessee went to the Georgia Dome as the #6 team in the nation in 2004.  Anyone recall LSU fans or Louisiana media members barking about the Vols’ plight?  Neither do we.  That’s because fans only notice/care when it’s their team that’s getting “slighted.”  Another example: Is anyone outside of Nashville taking up for a Vanderbilt squad that’s been to three bowls in five years but has had to stay inside its home state each time?

A word of warning for moaning Tiger fans: Tennessee lost its 2004 Chick-fil-A game to an 8-4 Clemson team, 27-14.  Here’s hoping LSU’s players are focused on their opponent and not SEC exit strategies.

 

Rabalais finishes his column thusly: “But after years of mounting frustration in the SEC, perhaps a fresh start would be best for LSU under the right circumstances.”

Years of mounting frustration?  Since 2001, LSU is 123-30 overall with four SEC titles, five league championship game appearances, two BCS crowns, three BCS title game appearances, and millions and millions of dollars in SEC checks cashed.  If Tiger fans are “frustrated” by that, then there’s no longer a debate over which league school has the whiniest, most spoiled fans.

Does anyone recall the SEC being too tough for LSU in 2007?  If the Tigers had been in any other conference and lost to the likes of Kentucky and Arkansas, there’s no chance in Hell Les Miles’ team would have been given a spot in the BCS championship game.  The simple fact is that without the SEC’s reputation, LSU would have never become the first two-loss team in history to play for the national crown.

The league also didn’t seem too tough for the Tigers last season.  Miles led his bunch to a 13-0 record, a win over Alabama in Tuscaloosa, a win over Georgia in the SEC Championship Game, and a win over — mygoshhowdtheyeverdoit — Florida in Baton Rouge.  Unless Slive drew up the Tigers’ offensive game plan for last year’s BCS title game, it’d be pretty hard to hang last season’s disappointment on the SEC office or any other scapegoats.

But as long as expansion and realignment are hot topics, there will continue to be vocal minorities at several schools who’ll hoot and holler about their team leaving the SEC.  A Lexington Herald-Leader columnist suggested a while back that Kentucky should look to the Big Ten.  The Wildcats have been mentioned in connection with the ACC as well.  It’s been suggested that Vanderbilt should head elsewhere.  And the Big XII has floated word to Arkansas that the Razorbacks would be welcome to join Texas’ band of step-brothers.

Yet the SEC still has no exit fees.

That in itself should tell you that while some fans moan and a few columnists fan the flames of dissension, none of the league’s schools are believed to be seriously considering any escape plans.

And if one of the league’s members does pull the ripcord?  Good riddance.  And good luck to the school and its fans as it deals with Texas, Jim Delany, or a wobbly ACC.

 

 


68 comments
GeauxState
GeauxState

@ Buddha this is all for readership. RabaIais likes to make people mad sometimes

GeauxState
GeauxState

WE  ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE! JUST PLAY THE SCHEDULE AND WIN! THIS IS NUTS! NEVER BEEN SO ASHAMED TO BE AN ALUM AND SUPPORTER OF LSU AFTER READING THE REASON TO LEAVE THE BEST CONFERENCE IN COLLEGE ATHLETICS BECAUSE OF SCHEDULING AND AFRIAD OF BAMA. WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON BEING THE BEST(SEC!!!!) AND COMPETING WITH THE BEST..NOT RUN FROM IT AND JOIN SOME CONFERENCE WHERE WE WIN ALL THE TIME BECAUSE WE'RE PLAYING LESSER OPPONENTS. 

Big Bob Marley
Big Bob Marley

Texas A&M's move to the SEC was a brilliant move by them, they are now in the best conference in the country (I live in Los Angeles and was basically raised here though I was born in Houston, Texas.) and a decade from now could become the premiere school for recruits since the SEC is where the exposure is. It doesn't mean you'll end up in the NFL as surprisingly, lower-tier schools produce a lot of talent for the NFL. Though, the great thing is the kids will get a great education as A&M is a great academic school and they'll get the most eye-balls on them if they are trying to pursue a professional athlete career. Johnny "Football" is already a household name now because of the SEC and the dude probably will never sniff the field when an NFL team drafts him 5th to 7th round in the draft or possibly has to sign as an undrafted free agent. But A&M did themselves well and Mizzou was lucky they got an offer to a conference they really had no interest in. I still say the SEC should've went with West Virginia, cable-houses be damned because they usually produce a competitive and gritty team each year even though this one wasn't that good for them.

aggiebama
aggiebama

Truth is, some people are going to complain that their water is wetter than everyone else's, and their gold is just too heavy. But if your goal is to play for a national championship, ask yourself this question...would you rather be the one-loss champion of the BigXii (KS State) or the one-loss champion of the SEC (Alabama)? Which one is warming up in Miami? Perhaps if LSU had beaten A&M more convincingly (and not by less than the points given up by A&M on missed field goals and extra points) there wouldn't have been a tossup for the Cotton. Bowls pick teams to generate money, not fairness. Do you believe more people in Dallas and in TX would tune in to see TAMU or LSU? Also remember that A&M was supposed to be a gimme road game when the season started. Good luck in a conference with Texas...A&M beat them 15 out of 30 and they got a TV network from ESPN. A&M had a $20M payout in the Big XII and a softer schedule, so why do you think we moved to an $18M payout to play the winners of the last 6 national championships? Texas had been in the Big XII for 1 year before the headquarters of the Big XII moved to Dallas...wouldn't count on having much say in the Big XII. TAMU has 4 times as much money as LSU, a bigger TV market, a larger student body, etc. and nobody could see us when Texas was in the room.

alamoaggie08
alamoaggie08

first of all everyone needs to remember that this is temporary scheduling done on the fly due to rapid changes in the conference.  second, it's not the league's fault that several teams didn't perform as expected.  florida, A&M, ole miss and vanderbilt were all better than expected while auburn, tennessee, missouri and arkansas were much worse.  obviously that flipped some strengths-of-schedule around.

 

A&M was expected to have the most brutal stretch of them all with 5 of 6 on the road, the lone home game being LSU and three straight road games at auburn, miss state and alabama.  at this point it doesn't seem that bad since they won all five of those road games and auburn (and miss st to an extent) were duds, but it seemed to spell doom when the schedule was initially released.  no one was crying foul then, just accepting all the "welcome to the sec where every game is tough" hoopla from everyone else.

 

everyone has their ups and downs, some years' shedules are better than others, but like john said it happens to everyone.  it's pretty ironic that LSU is complaining during a very successful stretch of its program history. if LSU truly felt it was one of the top programs in the nation, it wouldn't be complaining.

 

the funniest part was this idiot writer thinks the big 12 would be a more fair league.  yeah right.  they play a round robin schedule (for now)...that's about it.  you think the SEC sucks up?  enjoy life with texas.  about the only answer he gave in his "on second thought" article was LSU should stay in the SEC not because it's the best place for them, but because there's nowhere better go. (a little counter-intuitive, huh?)  smooth operating, dude.  you got yourself in a controversial bind and had to find a way out without permantly damaging your pride and reputation.  Grade: F

Charity Pie
Charity Pie

4 pods of 4

Play the 3 in your pod every year (3 conf. games)

Play 2 each from each other pod (6 conf. games)

= You play everyone home and away in 4 years time.

AGator
AGator

"Tigers to play Georgia and Florida from the East while Alabama gets Tennessee and Kentucky from that division"

 

The conference should have never made a schedule that favored one team over another like that. I can understand why LSU fans would be upset. It doesn't seem fair to me.

I4Bama
I4Bama

As an Alabama fan who has been accused of pleading on behalf of my team when I wouldn't feel the same if another team were in the same situation, let me say this:  LSU got the shaft on the bowl deal.  They have a legitimate case.  The rest, not so much.  mddo5 is right, too, that Alabama has, at times, had the short end of the stick on scheduling as well.  LSU, however, would have to be stark raving mad to go be another of Texas' little sisters.  They are not that stupid.  I will predict this - if enough of this sort of issue remains afloat from teams such as LSU and SC for long enough, it could push the SEC to further expansion in an effort to schedule more equitably.  With 18 teams, every division team could play every other division team for eight conference games per year.  Everyone plays roughly the same schedule (I say roughly to mean that not everyone will have the same home/road schedule).  This is far and away the easiest and simplest way to put this argument to rest.  I am sure there are days when Slive is tempted.

chadcopeland
chadcopeland

@MrSEC Your piece is an overreaction to an absurd column; no self-respecting LSU fan wants to leave the SEC.

mddo5
mddo5

John, as a reminder to all of those who think Alabama had a scheduling advantage, it was just a couple of years ago when Alabama played two consecutive seasons worth of SEC games in which greater than 75% of Alabama's SEC games were played with Alabama's opponents having an off week before they played Alabama. 75%, how is that an scheduling advantage.  Everything is cyclical...

MiracleMan4242
MiracleMan4242

@MrSEC Add 2 teams. Four 4-team divisions. Play 3 div opponents, all 4 from a rotating div opponent, 2 from other 2 div based prev finish.

BillRauhuff
BillRauhuff

I do not blame LSU much. I wish Tennessee would leave the SEC for the ACC or BIG 12 because the climb back to the top would be much easier. I would love to be in a conference with some easier teams to beat since Tennessee has a recruiting disadvantage as does Kentucky

MerryXmas123
MerryXmas123

Schedule strife and Georgia's constant (rigged) dodging of other top SEC fb programs will get ironed out after the next round of expansion.  I came here for episode 3 of the Big Bang Theory.  This article is a slight teaser I hope.

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

When you talk about LSU getting in because of the SEC in 2007 , it couldn't possibly be because their schedule as a whole was so hard verses the others in consideration.

 

What do you really think the % of LSU fans is that wants to leave the SEC? My guess is .001%.

 

What LSU fans get upset about is the scheduling. It sucks for several schools in the SEC. You think Ala and Georgia are complaining? What about LSU, Florida and USCe? Why aren't the temporary schedules more balanced? For those fans that think LSU is afraid to play tough teams, look at LSU's over the years and then your teams....then talk your crap. Yes...we should have won....but remember this, it's easier to win 2 or 3 hard games in a season than it is to win 5 hard ones in a row. Raise your hand if you don't think Alabama hasn't had a scheduling advantage since the years of the Bear. You don't have to be as good when the schedule is done right.

 

TimHarb1
TimHarb1

@GeauxState No they are mad that the Alabama gets the cupcakes and LSU has to play the non-cupcakes.  To be honest they need to balance their scheduling or look at what the Big 10 is doing with 14 members.  They seem to have a better handle on scheduling 14 teams.  Will admit tho, it will have years or periods where one side will be stronger than other.

buddha22
buddha22

@GeauxState Don't imagine anyone thought you were. Maybe I missed something, but this is just a writer trying to drum up readership...not an LSU spokesman, right?

buddha22
buddha22

@Big Bob Marley You are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't mean it is right. MU wouldn't accept a junior membership (as the nubs did) and I believe MU and their fans have demonstrated exactly how interested they were/are in the SEC and how happy they are to be here! Lucky? Damn straight. If Delaney hadn't tried to mastermind the fall of the B12 and blame Scott/P10 he may have landed MU...but I think Mr. Slive may have shown his aces before MU made any serious move to the B10...we'll never know. However, West Virginia (as well as others in BE) have "gritty/glossy records" because it was the BE, not a power conference. Please see how wheels came off after their typical roaring non-con start this year.

buddha22
buddha22

@alamoaggie08 I noticed no one in aggieville was bemoaning that MU had to come to Faurot South newly renamed Kyle Fied this year for the unprecedented 3rd year in a row, either, or did I just miss it???

JRsec
JRsec

 @Charity Pie I like it.  The only problem is getting those annual rivalries taken care of without losing the balance within and among the pods.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @I4Bama I think a lot of teams are getting hosed in this current bowl setup.  Georgia definitely got hosed falling out of the BCS(not saying Florida doesn't deserve a BCS slot). 

 

Things will be better when they remove the 2 team limit per conference under the new bowl setup.  At least, that has been rumored to be the setup.  For 6 high profile bowls(playoff included), there could conceivably be 4 or maybe more SEC teams among those 12 slots every year.

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @mddo5 You talk about one fluke year scheduling (other teams probably had their schedules changed for TV as well. You're an Alabama fan....a fairly young one at that. Believe me....the Bear and Alabama began playing the scheduling games for many years before you were born. There are reasons a team like Ga Tech left the SEC....it wasn't just one thing that caused them to leave. Scheduling has played a part in Alabama rich tradition that was built. They are a mini version of Texas.

SouthernBoiSB
SouthernBoiSB

 @MerryXmas123

Oh, please do inform us how Georgia rigged the schedule so many times!  I'm sure this Dawg fan (as well as the rest of the SEC) would love to hear it.

 

BTW, how's Alabama doing NOT playing UGA, UF, nor USC(e) AGAIN next season.  Somebody in Athens pulled those strings too?

JRsec
JRsec

 @FrankKendrick Back before expansion in 1992 Auburn was the one that complained about Bama's schedules.  Alabama played both Mississippi schools and Vanderbilt every year while Auburn's last three games of the season every year were Florida, Georgia, and Alabama.  In those days Auburn annually played Tennessee as did the Tide.  Auburn seldom had Kentucky, Ole Miss, or Vanderbilt on their schedule back then.  This stuff has always been around which is why I look forward to rotating half divisions in scheduling.  With that system everyone plays everyone else every three years whether we are a conference of 16, or 20.

alamoaggie08
alamoaggie08

 @buddha22  @alamoaggie08

no actually they weren't complaining because they had won there comfortably the previous two years, plus they were considered (and cockishly titled themselves) contenders while a&m was expected to be mediocre at best.  of course they would have been happier playing the game at missouri, but in hind sight (and even before that game took place) do you really think that would have made much of a difference considering they were spiraling down, injured and a&m was undefeated on the road?  think about it before you go blathering off again. 

 

now that we've got all that cleared up...what the heck is your problem?  you are throwing an absolute hissy fit over nothing.  forgive me for using the team i happen to know the most about as an example.  apparently it has offended you a great deal and must be keeping you up at night.  if you want to make an example of missouri or anyone else who feel they got "slighted" in some way (which is basically everyone), then go right ahead.  i'm not going to stop you, and neither is anyone else.

buddha22
buddha22

@JRsec @Charity Pie LSU is right about one thing, time for those "permanent" rivalries to go unless they want to be in the same division. It's a new ballgame and seeing a school in your conference once every 10 years just doesn't cut it so 'Bama can have homecoming every year vs Tenn..

JRsec
JRsec

 @AllTideUp  @I4Bama If we move to a 4 or 3 super conference setup with 16 to 20 teams per conference the whole bowl issue will have to be revamped and hopefully the national championship playoffs will be extraneous to all of them.  Therefore the existing bowl ties will be severed.  As the bowls payouts go so should the rankings of the remaining teams.  A 3rd place SEC vs a 3rd place Big 10 with only one position variance at most all the way down to the last eligible teams.  The payouts therefore will be reflective of their seasons and you won't have the cruddy match-ups we have now.

Flagg707
Flagg707

@FrankKendrick @mddo5 "They are a mini version of Texas..." I'm a Missouri fan, so let me weigh in here. Better a mini version of Texas than the full-blown metastatic version. You have no idea what it is like to live under the heel of those sociopaths in Austin. Every conference that has too many members to play a round-robin has its conspiracy theories on scheduling. This article from the Advocate has to be trolling to draw eye-balls to boost his year-end numbers. LSU can't be seriously considering the Big 12.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @FrankKendrick  Georgia Tech left because Alabama was getting an unfair advantage in the scheduling?  John is on the money with his analysis...if one member of a 10-team or 12-team or 14-team conference is getting some sort of unfair advantage then that means everyone must be in on it.  How else could you explain ONE single school getting so much special treatment year in and year out...for decades apparently?  This isn't the Big 12 and Bama has never had any sort of de facto or legal dominance over this league.  The SEC was never set up to work like that.

mddo5
mddo5

@FrankKendrick @mddo5 except that Alabama makes the exact same amount as LSU does. and Vandy. and Ole Miss. and (now) Mizzou. Do you go early think that Alabama complained back in the 90's when Tennessee dominated?

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @SouthernBoiSB  And I believe it was Nick Saban that publicly advocated for 9 games so we could play these schools more often.  If the SEC responds at the beckon call of Bama(or any program for that matter) to make things easier on them then why would the Bama administration want to make it harder for themselves?

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @JRsec  @FrankKendrick Exactly...Florida's had Auburn, Georgia and the Alabama...Alabama would have an open date before Auburn I believe. The Bear was not a fool....he played the game big time just like his recruiting tactics.

JRsec
JRsec

 @buddha22  @JRsec Sporadic posting over about 11 months.  I laid off for about three months after May while I brought in my garden.

buddha22
buddha22

@JRsec How long did it take you to accumulate 1066 points?

buddha22
buddha22

@alamoaggie08 Aggie, please! Methinks you doth protest too much! However, you may need to check yourself for that hissy fit? All I was pointing out was that the aggies didn't have the toughest row to hoe as has been borne out, indeed, given the way it went I doubt the aggies would've lost in Columbia, but just for fun, lets get a special scheduling "quirk" where they play in Columbia (let's say MO) the next 3 years? Then it will all be square! Gig'em?

JRsec
JRsec

 @buddha22  @JRsec  @Charity You can have both and when the new scheduling is out rivalries will be preserved and everyone will play everyone else every three years.  The issue with rivalries is that those are the games that the alumni donate extra money for just sot the athletic department sends them tickets, or gets them better seats.  No A.D. in the SEC wants to give up the games that tease the loot.

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @AllTideUp  @FrankKendrick Like you I wonder why I argue with fans about this type of thing. Technically, I guess you are correct.....I can only base my views on things I see and read as well as what facts I know and then come to my conclusion. Concerning facts, it's my guess that you know about the same as I do concerning the inter-play of all the decision makers (which isn't much). If the fact that Alabama had an easier schedule than LSU this year and will next can't be justified with known facts that I can present to you (don't have knowledge of context of discussions that lead to this decision....as I assume you don't), I guess I have to just theorize why. If you don't know the facts, I guess your view is as good as mine. Why would temporary schedules continue to favor a couple of teams? What facts I do know are: the SEC office is in Alabama (don't know reason why...assume it was centrally located within SEC territory at the time); some of the SEC staff had an affiliation with Alabama in some form as well as some key SEC officiating officals; I know for a fact the Bear had great influence around where I lived (at the time in Pensacola); I know for a fact that Alabama has for many, many years had more favorable SEC schedules than their biggest rivals at the time (Why?....Maybe it was just the Bear being a smart SOB?...or it may have been by chance);  I have read article(s) that Bear over signed to keep players from his rivals; I have heard stories of his/Alabama's recruiting tactics...to be fair they all cheated ((just told about/know  a few (Ala, Auburn, Florida, LSU, Texas A&M)....so many years ago)). Based on what I've seen, read, and know, my opinion is the Bear had great influence and Alabama has been the fair haired child of this conference. I also think the Bear and SEC office has played a big part in it being like it is. As for the topic of the temporary schedules just so happening to work out for Alabama,  riddle me this Batman....why the first year and then the second as well favoring them? Being on the far west side of the conference, perhaps you know better the reason why?

 

I don't believe Dodd pushed the return because he knew of the Mississippi issue and his pride. My opinion of him during that time was he as an honorable man and didn't like what he was seeing. Sure Dodd had influence as well. If they wanted to play the game along with Alabama they could have gotten in if a majority or 3/4 vote was what was needed. Don't know if it had to be 100% to get in.

 

Let's be honest here....Your opinion of the SEC world as seen though Crimson and White eyes is different than the world I now see through Purple and Gold eyes. I agree that I am believing what I want to believe. I also believe you are believing what you want to believe. Whose right? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Hell...I thought Tiger Woods was a very good husband. My guess is you view the Bear as a Saint. I have learned the media paints pictures of events and people that are not always true. No one but the person involved knows the truth (what they are thinking) and even others that see the event see if though different eyes.

 

We will just disagree about what is happening.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @FrankKendrick  I'm not talking down to you at all.  I'm just noting the ridiculousness of what you're saying.

 

First off, you haven't done anything other than repeat a mantra.  All of this time you've been saying Bama gets special treatment and pretty much runs the show in the SEC.  I've asked for reasoning on that and you've given me nothing, just repeated the same statements.  Sorry, but on merit that is a theory not a statement of fact.

 

Second, you are now contradicting yourself.  First you imply that Bama is some sort of all-powerful institution.  Now, you're saying Bama had to form some sort of consensus behind closed doors to get what it wants and had to offer some sort of quid pro quo.  Well, by definition(assuming any of that even happened) that would not be special treatment.  That would be a trade and would be indicative of relatively equal power across the membership.  I'm well aware that some schools can have more influence that others.  That's the nature of any conference.  What you said, however, was essentially that Bama ran the show.  Obviously that's not the case and never has been.  The article you gave me even shows that assuming it's all accurate.

 

Here's the excerpt from the article:

 

"However, in 1975, there appeared to be a making up of sorts between Coach Bryant and Coach Dodd. Bryant told Dodd that Alabama would personally sponsor Georgia Tech getting back into the SEC. While Dodd was grateful, he stated that the Mississippi schools would never allow Tech back into the SEC."

 

So Bear Bryant was an all-powerful figure that wielded so much influence that he couldn't get the other 7 SEC schools to vote down what the 2 Mississippi schools wanted?  The math doesn't add up my friend.

 

And it wasn't unusual for football coaches to speak for their schools in matters of athletics in those times.  College football and sports in general were not the money makers they are today.  From that article, Dodd obviously carried the same type of influence at GT that Bryant did at Bama.  In that day, there was really never a reason a football coach should be vetoed by his school in matters of athletics.  If he was competent and successful then he would be given the benefit of the doubt.  Kind of like the Dean of the Business school would be given the benefit of the doubt in matters pertaining to his college.  It's not some weird conspiracy playing out behind closed doors.

 

I don't know why I spent this much time arguing about this.  Like I said, you are believing what you want to believe and it should be obvious to everyone else by now if not before.

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @AllTideUp  @FrankKendrick First off not theories...please don't talk down to me like that.

 

If for one second you believe all meetings held don't have people pushing their agendas you are not living in the real world. The Bear yielded great influence during his day. You, as an Alabama fan, can even see Alabama and Saban's  in today's times. I also have stated that Alabama is a mini-Texas. The only reason is because they have been kept in check when it comes to everyone's dollars (doesn't hurt that the conference was started with equal shares...thus Alabama would play hell getting those dollars from others like Texas has.) Am I privy to what has been said behind closed doors prior to and during meetings?....of course not. I can only go on what I see and read ((keeping in mind all I read is not necessarily accurate (First hand knowledge to that fact.)). To answer your question about, "...then how did they (Alabama) pull it off?" They obviously had their discussions with others to get a consensus before the meeting. There was probably some give and take on others topics that were important to others....a kind of you do this and I'll do that. This happens all the time....nothing new.

 

Here is a link to why Georgia Tech left (taken from Musing with Cecil Buffington). When you read it, please note what was stated that the Bear told Dodd about coming back to the SEC. (He would push for it.) Now if he didn't have ANY influence then what would it really matter for just little old Alabama (him representing them) to give their okay?  cecilbuffington.com/catalog_40.html

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @FrankKendrick   Any theories as to why every other school in the SEC has allowed this sort of thing to happen, for decades no less?  If Alabama doesn't have the power of Texas then how did they pull all this off? 

 

I think you are believing what you want to believe.

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @Flagg707  @FrankKendrick  @mddo5 Ga Tech didn't leave just because of scheduling...never said that. Scheduling; influence in decisions made (like Texas); academic issues; numbers of players recruited; etc. were issues for Tech (forgotten the issue that broke the camel's back). Alabama has had a big hand in many of the league's issues. Bear had a LOT of influence in his day.

 

Alabama is NOT Texas...NO ONE is like Texas....they are a cancer. I've watched Texas do it's thing over the years....they need to be like another school I just love (big joke) Notre Dame.

 

Never said they didn't make the same amounts.....that is a big reason Alabama is NOT Texas. If you don't think Alabama would try what Texas pulled off if they could, you are living in a dream world. It's all about control.

 

How about the years when Alabama had a week off before the BIG game while the other team had played two or three BIG games in a row before that game (with no open date).

 

As for the complaining about playing Florida. It has nothing to do with them being hard and we are afraid to play them. (Shaking Head at Alabama fans thinking). Look at who LSU has played over the years and the crazy schedules they have had to play....no LSU will kick your A$$...they aren't afraid to play YOU (LOL). It has to do with fairness of the schedule. Yes Tennessee is down ...not your fault. But ask USCe or Florida or LSU if the temporary schedules have been fair (as well as other schedules over the years). Alabama isn't playing 4 or 5 teams in a row that are very good. Hell...this year they couldn't play 2 games in a row (LSU then Tx A&M.). There's a reason teams lose after playing very hard physical games the week before...ask FSU when they were #1 and got 9-11 players hurt in the LSU game only to lose the next week to an average team because they were beaten up. It's fairnes of schedule not how tough it is.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @I4Bama  @FrankKendrick   I also remember many years where Tennessee had the week off before playing Bama.  Even today it's rare for Bama to have a week off before playing UT despite that being one of our 2 most important games.  Strange that Bama has not used its dictatorial influence to rectify that, no? 

I4Bama
I4Bama

 @mddo5  @FrankKendrick

 If Alabama does not play six teams coming off a bye week, it is very possible they are playing for four straight on January 7th.  You cannot possibly insinuate that Alabama has lost nothing in the scheduling deal.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

 @JRsec  @SouthernBoiSB I've always been a fan of playing everyone twice every 4 years although that would be difficult under any setup.  16 teams would make a lot of scheduling issues more fair and more equitable.

 

I also agree with the idea of spreading more conference games over the course of the season rather than waiting 2-3 weeks for everyone to start.  The league slate is more difficult simply because there are no real breaks in between, especially for teams that play OOC rivals. 

JRsec
JRsec

 @AllTideUp  @SouthernBoiSB It was also Saban who said that any player on any SEC team should be able to play all of the conference teams during his four years.  The only problem we are having is the temporary schedule.  When we expand again we can move to an easier scheduling format.

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @AgLove98  @FrankKendrick  @saginaw  @JRsec  Are you kidding me....Texas A$M is too tough for LSU. There's not a team in the universe too tough for them. The point was playing a tough schedule like that was not the same as Alabama's schedule. It has nothing to do with fear of the opponents!!!! Shaking head...some of you guys are just unbelievable.

AgLove98
AgLove98

 @FrankKendrick  @saginaw  @JRsec Oh, so the A&M game is too tough for the little bayou kitties now?  What happened to "Strap it up" and "They're going to really not enjoy their welcoming to this conference"?

FrankKendrick
FrankKendrick

 @saginaw  @JRsec Oh they did them a favor alright....let's see: at Florida, then South Carolina, then at Texas A$M , then open date,  then Alabama, and then Miss State. Notice any difference in schedules between Alabama and LSU? The open date thing has only been in the last about 3 years. Usually it was Alabama I believe that had the open date. Don't you think for one second that Alabama hasn't played the open date game since I can remember.

saginaw
saginaw

 @FrankKendrick  @JRsec

 LSU aren't fools either. They always have an open date before Bama. The SEC really set the table for them this year as Bama had to play while LSU was resting.  Of course it didn't work out, but the SEC did their part

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