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Is Mizzou A Fit? Were Arkansas And Carolina?

Jon Solomon of The Birmingham News recently conducted an interesting little Q&A with former SEC commissioner Roy Kramer.  In it, he asked Kramer a question that many SEC fans have been tossing back and forth the past few weeks — Does Missouri fit in the SEC?

“How do you know whether someone fits or doesn’t fit?  I think part of that comes in time.  Did Arkansas and South Carolina fit when we took them?  Today, we think of them as strong, traditional members of the Southeastern Conference.  Was that the case when they came in?  Probably not in the minds of a lot of people.”

As we noted in an earlier post this morning, in 1992 there were fewer messageboards and talk radio shows for those people to share their doubts.  And if those things had existed, Arkansas and South Carolina would have faced some of the same obstacles that are currently being hurled against Missouri.

For all the talk of Missouri being out of place geographically, have you looked at Fayetteville, Arkansas’ placement on a map?  The UA campus is closer to the states of Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri than it is to any current SEC state.

From 1925 through 1991, the Razorbacks had competed in a conference made up of 100% Texas-based rivals.  The Hogs had lived in a culture of Stetson hats and cowboy boots.

Yet Arkansas has won a national crown in basketball since entering the SEC.  One could argue that the Razorback football program is currently headed for heights unmatched since the Frank Broyles era.

Regarding the chatter that Missouri won’t be able to raise funds and therefore won’t be able to compete in the SEC, think back to the University of South Carolina circa 1992.  The independent Gamecocks had been to just eight bowl games in the program’s history (and they’d lost them all).

But since joining the SEC with their smallish athletic budget, the Cocks have doubled their number of bowl appearances, winning four.  Last season they became the first East Division team not named Florida, Georgia or Tennessee to reach Atlanta.  One could argue that the current era of football has had more highlights than any other in school history.  And the athletic budget had risen in 2009-10 to be one of the 13 largest budgets in the country.

Is Missouri a fit with the SEC?  As Kramer says, time will tell.  But the arguments being used against the Tigers now are the same ones that would have been used in 1992 had fans and media had as many outlets to share their views.

 


65 comments
Thetruth
Thetruth

16 teams in 15 minutes? What about "please Missouri - please don't make the SEC look stupid"

FatPearl
FatPearl

By the way, Mizzouri: don't believe any of those comments about trading the Texas bully with the Alabama bully. Not true. Do most of the original 10 tend to vote together? Yes. Do the Big 6 powers tend to vote in like fashion? Yes. Many times, it's only Vanderbilt or the Mississippi schools objecting to the majority opinion, but since they're equal members, the rest of the league will respect them and hold off until unanimity can be achieved.

Yes, the conference is the example by which all others should be judged, but that's more due to the fact that it has the grace of birth in the South, which makes all things instantly better. BUT: you don't hold together a membership that stretches from Gainesville to Fayetteville and Lexington to Baton Rouge, by allowing rancor to fester. Don't believe me? Ask Auburn and Tennessee , or Florida (and Auburn) how happy they are about losing each other as an annual opponent after decades of circling those dates. Ask Alabama and Tennessee how happy they were about The Third Saturday in October not being played that weekend many years. Ask Florida what it was like to have their first (de facto) league championship in history vacated by the conference because of Charlie Pell's shenanigans. Hurtful and humiliating, much like Legion Field in Birmingham (The Former Football Capital of the South) looks these days.

The whole sentiment that the conference is greater than her individual members isn't just fans talking. It's true in practice. You don't need to worry that you're voice will matter less than Alabama's or that Georgia will collude with charter members to veto your wishes. In time you will learn that if it's not going to be unanimous, it isn't offered up for a vote until it can be unanimous.

And everybody needs to go ahead and keep picking on the SEC schools for being less "academic," or "cheaters," or "illiterate, toothless hillbillies and farmboys," Well, there were a lot of hillbillies in Appalachia when I was in school in Knoxville, but they were hardly noticeable until they came down from the hills and showed up on Game Day with front-row seats and a knack for getting on camera.

Once your'e in, Mizzou, all of this angst and doubting will cease, and the focus will shift to defending you to outsiders who deem you unwise or unworthy. And despite our general illiteracy, we manage to jot down quite a bit on the message boards of schools with the bad judgment to slander you and your Tigers. Vandy fans are REALLY good at this, since it is a competition they are ideally suited for, and the Aggies are semi-pro having traded barbs with the Ugly Orange lo these past 100 years.

FatPearl
FatPearl

The NCAA becomes just a clearinghouse for paperwork, and the real power is vested in the 3 commissioners, with the SEC's being the top dog and power broker. OK, that last comment is a reach, but otherwise, that's the future, and now you know why A&M and Mizz make sense, at least for now, and we'll have a dozen years or so to inculcate passion for football, chivalry, beautiful women, good food, and using "Coke" generically, meaning any Coca-Cola or Dr. Pepper product. The Yankees can have Pepsi. Yuck! The ACC gets involuntarily absorbed by the SEC, sans weaklings. The Big East gets picked apart by the B1G, and the PAC's border stops about 350 miles west of the Mississippi River. Oh, there may be some temporary homes for a few years to confuse sportswriters and attorneys (WVU, Louisville, and maybe Cincy to the Big 12 for now), until we decide the Big 12 isn't needed as a placeholder, and we begin performing 3-way surgery on it, killing it and all hopes for western or northern dominance over the SEC. Apologies for the run-on sentence; I'm tired after the drive back to Memphis from St. Louis and Game 2 of the World Series. My 5-year-old son Bo (Southern, much?) saw his first WS game with his dad, uncle, cousin, and grandfather.

It's wild, hard to fathom, decidedly evil, but if you read between the lines over the past few years, you begin to see why the ACC is almost as scared as the BE is today, and the Big 12 will be again when ISU, et al, realize the gig is up and we've revoked their Relevance Credentials.

Other poster is correct, though, about Mizz and Southern. Over the years, I've seemed to sense the invisible border between Dixie and parts unknown right about where St. Genevieve, MO sits, give or take an hour. I'll care about Kansas City when there's a straight interstate drive from Memphis. Until then, they're part of Kansas, which nobody wants to be.

To soften the basketball blow to our newest members, we could easily swap the tournament between Memphis and Nashville's NBA and NHL arenas, giving the West and East a chance for proximity to more of those school's fans. Much better BBQ in Memphis than KC, and I've eaten lots from both.

In case my mama reads this (and you know any self-respecting Belle keeps up with the football), was I as nice about it as I'm hoping I was?

Bubba Gump
Bubba Gump

To MIZ_SEC and all the Missouri homers posting on here,

Please refrain from talking smack with folks that are actually already members of the SEC. Quit citing your records against SEC teams, and quit acting like you are the only school with academic credentials. This is what B1G teams do, and frankly it is tiresome. I grew up with SWC and Big 8 football so I am aware of both your past, and that of Arkansas. Some things I know for a fact is all 3 of the last SEC additions spent years interacting with the SEC and had cultural fits long before they were invited. They were also humble in their desire to become part of the SEC family, and put in the time for everybody to get to know one another. If you have only played 30 games in your history with current SEC teams - and almost none of them as home and home games - please refrain from telling us how good you are. For a school that has accomplished so little, you act like you will be the second coming.

Do not belittle Arkansas, as they have already grown greatly and have proposed another 300 million in sports expansions. Do not belittle Kentucky as they are a founding member of the SEC and beyond reproach. Do not claim to be better than Vanderbilt when they are one of the finest academic institutions in the USA. In short, fix your own issues and try the soft sell before all the bluster. In the south we work as a team and if you really want to join, ti would help if you learned this.

Missouri may become a member, but it will be about the money, and letting networks drive football instead of teams. A&M at least got to know us, and we got to know them long before they got the invite. They wanted the SEC over the PAC early on. I am not opposed to you joining if that is what Slive says, but you will go a lot farther if you learn some respect and manners first.

ZouGuy3
ZouGuy3

The only 'smack' I have seen from Mizzou fans has been aimed at trolling Beakers, or in fact likely was trolling Beakers posing as Mizzou fans. I don't think any of us are disrespecting your conference, we want to be a part of it and get out of the remnants of the Big 12. If anything, I think Mizzou fans may have gotten a bit defensive in response to some of the more extreme anti-Mizzou posts, which is just a natural human response.

Remember, there are a lot of people with an agenda out there as well as some idiot fans on our part (but all teams unfortunately have that variety) and I request that you not pass such quick judgment based on the passing comments of anonymous message board posters.

Looking forward to the big decision today!

FatPearl
FatPearl

Outstanding, Bubba. A little heavy-handed for a post about manners and culture, but I think it's understandable considering our prom date may or may not have said, to one of our buddies, but loud enough to hear, that they'd go with us if Biff and his tiny "gesture" failed to show any interest. Yet, there she is, in a pretty dress, and once you give her the right corsage and put Ex-Lax in Biff's dessert, you're golden.

Don't anybody question for a second that Mizz is a fit, just as our choices of ACC schools will be a fit when we grow to 20-24 schools in 15-20 years, with 2 sub-leagues, each with 2 conferences of 10-12 schools each. As will the PAC and the B1G. If nothing else, Mizz is the bargaining chip (mutually agreed upon) in several years when we want the B1G to go no further south than Maryland, giving us territorial rights to UVA, VPI and/or WVU, UNC, NCSU, DU, CU, Ga Tech, and Florida State. My guess is that Miami, ECU, Wake, the lesser of VPI and WVU, and MTSU will be demoted to the development league, along with ISU, KSU, KU, Baylor, the New Mex schools, Wyoming, and Boise. Maybe UConn, Rutgers, or any other NYC/Philly/Boston area schools once the fallacy of their attraction to those markets becomes proven. The real battle will be over who has to take the sets of Texas and Texas Tech and Oklahoma and Okie Lite. If the junior partners are on the bubble, I bet we split with the PAC and call it a day, preferring Okie Lite to TT any day. OU fills a geo hole for us, and we win by making the PAC take TX. It all depends on T. Boone's will, and whether Okie Lite gets most of it, in which case we'd invite them just to poach their windfall to pay for their smaller TV value, leaving Texas to have to do the same for Tech to earn PAC invites. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have to allow Tech and Okie Light to stay major; all it takes is a board meeting to make them satellite campuses of TX and OK, and demote their athletic programs with the other left-behinds. Why split the state of Oklahoma's 2 literate citizens when we can have both?

Each of the 3 leagues (SEC,B1G, and PAC) will have divvied up anybody worth playing on TV and willing to make enough to help the academic sides as state budgets continue to shrink. PAC gets the west and much of the vacant Plains, B1G gets the upper Midwest and Northeast, just to watch those people continue to move south and west. That makes 3 major conferences of 20-24 members, 6 leagues, 12 divisions, before or after which we will have formed our own basketball tournament, demoting the billion-dollar March Madness and keeping that cash for the major 60-75 schools instead of 300+. If you're not gonna fund football at the major level, then you don't get to play basketball at that level, either. You also have to fund baseball, wrestling, all Olympic men's sports, AND satisfy Title 9. Try funding all of that with Baylor's budget! Then...

Jamie Thornton
Jamie Thornton

I think there was one retard Mizzou fan doing that, but not miz_sec. You're going to have one in every group. YOu probably had one staff member (who probably graduated from a BIG university) who also let out the, "if we can't get the BIG, we will take the SEC line." SO you can't get on everyone. Honeslty, I don't think MIzzou is a great fit. I think the Aggies were because they showed they wanted the SEC. WVU was the same. BUt I hope they prove me wrong. If they join the SEC, they're an SEC member. ANd I for one will treat them with great respect and pride. They will hear the smack come gameday though. lol.

Bubba Gump
Bubba Gump

JT,

It may or may not be MIZ_SEC, but it is more than just one poster. Not just on here, but on other SEC boards as well. I would link, but that would go against John and this site. My point was not so much Missouri joining the SEC, but how they were going about it. Back in June of 2010 there was still a part of the A&M fan base that wanted the PAC, and there was a part that wanted the B12. It took over a year to get a majority on board, and A&M already had a long history with the schools in the SEC west.

I was around when Arkansas joined the SEC and they had a history with the SEC west schools - LSU going back to 1901, Ole Miss going back to 1908, and Mississippi State going back to 1916. Even 20 years ago Arkansas had played just Ole Miss and LSU at least twice as many times as Missouri has played the entire SEC as of today. On the flip side Missouri has played Arkansas - who would be their closest school - a total of (5) FIVE times! So when folks say Missouri is like Arkansas or South Carolina back in the early 90's I say it is not the same at all. The adds of Arkansas and South Carolina were cultural fits. The add of Texas A&M is a cultural fit, based on prior history with SEC teams. The add of Missouri is not a cultural fit at all, and probably never will be.

Call it what it is, as a port in a storm after being rebuffed by the B1G and not even taken for a spin by the PAC. Call it what it may be, as a money and land grab between 2 business partners. At least this is honest, but please do not call it a cultural fit like it was when Arkansas, South Carolina, and A&M joined because that is pure hogwash. Where were all these Missouri homers a few months ago? Where were they when A&M was starting their effort a few years ago? Why was Missouri not playing home and homes with SEC teams starting around the early 1990's instead of scheduling all those B1G schools home and home during the same time? Why is the SEC the place to be only at the 11th hour?

Maybe a year from now it will be different, but right now Missouri seems split between the B1G faction, the "do nothing" faction, and the SEC faction. I know the Missouri boards are saying the support is 90% but I tend to doubt it based on demographics. Maybe the younger set wants it, but the older folks write the checks, and these folks have spent a lifetime bashing the SEC. Until the whole "over 40" Missouri fan base is dead and buried there will be folks in that group who think the SEC is beneath them. I think Missouri to the SEC will happen, but for all the wrong reasons, and I am not wearing Black & Gold glasses.

Rob
Rob

Missouri is the bellwether state and doesn't fit anywhere perfectly. As Southerners, do we want to grow our culture or shrink it by isolating ourselves?

Janson Roberts
Janson Roberts

As southerners, we want to drink our sweet tea and eat our grits for breakfast. I went to Missouri just to see if they have what we need and....yes, everyplace I stopped and ate they had sweet tea and every place I stopped fr breakfast had grits on the menu. I say they are close enough and what they lack in southern culture, it will be our duty here in the SEC to beat it into them when they join us here :)

Rob
Rob

I agree, although this Southerner hates sweet tea, so I wouldn't blame them one bit if they did too.

Jamie Thornton
Jamie Thornton

Maybe a NOrth Missouri and a South Missouri? lol

mith242
mith242

I was a bit young when Arkansas and South Carolina joined the SEC and always wondered what everyone else in the SEC thought at the time when those two schools joined. And yes Fayetteville is pretty far away from what you'd think of as typical 'South'. Fayetteville is pretty close to the Midwest and does have a little Midwest culture. But over all it pulls in a lot of people from the rest of the state including parts of Arkansas that are rather deep South in nature. I think Missouri will fit in better to the SEC than what some are thinking. I suppose a lot of it comes from your perspective. If you live in the SEC East area it might seem a bit odd. But if you're in some areas of the SEC West, in particular Arkansas, you probably think it will be a good addition.

AJW
AJW

mizzooka maybe you should change that to you can beat anyone in the big 12 in columbia ..

Mizzooka
Mizzooka

Actually, that's funny and somewhat true...

Mizzooka
Mizzooka

Anyone who seriously believes that every SEC team is far better than the best teams from other conferences (ie. Oklahoma, Texas, Oregon, etc.) is simply a fool. Currently, the SEC has 4 tough teams. LSU, Alabama, Florida, and South Carolina. Other than that, the other teams are no different than tough Texas competition or teams from the old Big 12 North like Mizzou, Nebraska, K-State and in the late 1990's Colorado.

And Mizzou can beat anyone in the Big 12. Before you spout anti-Mizzou nonsense, just take a moment to look at their record from the past decade. Otherwise, you just come off looking like a fool.

ZouGuy3
ZouGuy3

I promise not all of our fans are as poorly informed as Mizzooka. I'm just going to pretend he a trolling Beaker fan.
This guy clearly hasn't watched Texas play much the last couple years.

And Mizzou can't beat anyone in the Big 12, Oklahoma and Texas own us. Although last year's victory against OU was oh so sweet.

Mizzooka
Mizzooka

That's funny...ZouGuy3. If Oklahoma owned us then they'd have beaten us last year. Okay...shit...I'll concede. Oklahoma has owned us. However, we have been able to beat anyone in the league with exception to Oklahoma in the past decade. Wouldn't you compare Oklahoma to, say, Alabama, LSU, or Florida? I mean, if you couldn't grasp what I was saying, then I have to assume you're a trolling Beaker douche as well and really not a Mizzou fan at all.

Oh well...

Kirk
Kirk

TROLL!!!!!

Fayettechill14
Fayettechill14

South Carolina? When has South Carolina been one of the best teams in the SEC in any sport other than baseball (every SEC team is good at baseball)?

That said, I think Missouri would be decent football team. At their best they would never be better than 5-3 in conference (especially if they go to the West) but they would be able to consistently compete. This season's team is down from the last few years.

Missouri WOULD settle near the bottom if they are placed in the SEC West, even if Auburn moves over to the East, they'll be left chasing Alabama, Arkansas, and LSU.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

The difference between the East and the West is cyclical. It was only a couple of years ago that Florida was winning national titles. They'll be back sooner than later. You are right about South Carolina. They've proven they can go to bowl games regularly, but they have not proven they can sustain success.

Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, and Auburn are probably the strongest 'programs' although not necessarily the strongest teams this year. Arkansas can be strong, but they need the right coach because they have so few prospects in-state. The same is true for Tennessee as it was not that long ago they were competing year in and year out for SEC crowns. Vanderbilt is virtually hopeless. Kentucky can be decent on a yearly basis like South Carolina. Ole Miss and MSU can jump up and be good about once a decade and will miss a bowl game about half the time.

It remains to be seen what A&M will look like in the SEC, but they have everything you need to be a perennial power. Mizzou has questions as well, but I think they can be at the same level of Arkansas.

ZouGuy3
ZouGuy3

And I'll be thrilled if we end up joining you guys in that venture. A&M is a quality school and it was always enjoyable having you as an opponent in the Big 12. Although it looks like we'll be going to different divisions in the SEC, I hope some form of a rivalry can be forged down the road.

Aggiefaithful
Aggiefaithful

I can only hope this move will wake us up after a decade + of disappointment. Last year was good( with the exception of the Cotton Bowl debacle); this year is a big flip of the coin, but I like Sherman, and our 2012 recruit class is looking good. SEC is going to bring the wood to our behinds, no doubt; we win 6-8 games next year, and are able to represent the SEC in a bowl game of any sort, and I will be very encouraged about the next few years. We Ags talk of the "wrecking crew" glory days of the SWC, but there will be no bigger challenge than to resurrect that defense in the SEC. Either way, I am proud to be entering this historic conference.

GeoffDawg
GeoffDawg

A little hot under the collar?

Jamie Thornton
Jamie Thornton

lol. obviously you haven't been watching much sec football in recent years. The four top schools in the sec west are much better than any school from the sec east. And the records and results show that to be a fact.

Mizzooka
Mizzooka

News flash to Mizzou fans: We can compete in the SEC. We may not win or reach an SEC Championship for a while during our adjusting period, but we definitely won't be bottom feeders. I anticipate an 8-4 type start with occasional years where we challenge another team for a trip to Atlanta. We've been doing it to Oklahoma and Texas for the past decade. It won't just all of the sudden end. We can beat Arkansas. We've proven that recently. If we can beat Arkansas by over 30 points in the Cotton Bowl, we can probably handle our own against Mississippi teams, we can definitely handle Kentucky and Vanderbilt, and we know for certain that we can beat Texas A&M. We'll have difficulties against Florida, Alabama, and LSU. Currently, South Carolina is a tad bit better than Mizzou but who knows how long that'll last. We beat South Carolina in a recent bowl game so we have a winning record against them (I believe 2-0). Auburn only won the National Championship because they got lucky and landed the very best quarterback in the country. Otherwise, Auburn and Georgia in my opinion are about on par with each other and are usually beaten each year by surprising teams (ie. Boise State).

Arkansawyer
Arkansawyer

It's not really fair to bring up that 2008 Cotton Bowl. That was right after we fired Houston Nutt. So what you're really saying is that you are 30 points better than this year's Ole Miss team.

GeoffDawg
GeoffDawg

I agree with you in principle. FYI though, Georgia is the worst its been since the mid-90s and it won't stay down long. Regardless of how effective our current coaching staff may or may not be, we still have the built in advantage of being the homestate university in one of the country's richest pools of talent. If Mizzou joins the East, you can expect they'll make Georgia recruiting a priority like many other programs.

Also, I was surprised at the Boise loss as well but they've made me a believer. At least Kellen Moore did. Not sure if they'll be able to maintain it after he graduates.

Mizzooka
Mizzooka

I'm a Mizzou fan and all this talk about how we can't compete and how our booster money will dry up is completely at odds with the reality. It all seems to be coming from Kansas City, which has an agenda by the way. If we move to the SEC, KC will most likely lose the Big 12 basketball tournament and an annual game with the Jayhawks at Arrowhead Stadium probably won't happen. Kansas City doesn't want this move to happen. However, I don't care about Kansas, K-State, or the rest of the Big 12 for that matter. I really don't care about what happens to the city of KC. With the Chiefs in town, I assure you they'll be fine. Mizzou needs to act in its own best interest and move to the SEC.

As for whether or not we can compete in the SEC, Mizzou holds a 20-8-1 football record against current SEC schools. That's taking into consideration that we've earned that record with our so called "small athletics budget". In the SEC our budget will increase, so I don't believe that we'll get worse.

Glenn
Glenn

I don't think South Carolina would be a good fit if they were placed in the western division . Just sayin , Mizzou needs to be placed in the west and then I'm all for Mizzou in the SEC . Auburn should be in the east . When aTm was placed given a space in the SEC the powers that be had to know that you would need to go to 14 teams . Once you went to 14 teams things would have to give . I don't think you are doing the SEC or Missouri any good by this kind of misalignment . If it comes to either Missouri goes to the east or it doesn't have the vote I hope everyone would take just consider it a bad marriage ....for both the SEC and Missouri .

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

This is a rather pro-Mizzou ad. The difference between S. Carolina/Arkansas and Missouri is simple: Mizzou is NOT SOUTHERN. Anyone who has been to Columbia knows this. There are regions of Mizzouri that are somewhat southern (ex. the Bootheel, which is closer to Oxford than Columbia). Columbia is closer in culture to Minnesota or Jersey than it is to any current SEC member.
When we cheer for SEC teams during bowl season, we are cheering for the South. Even when Texas played USC, we cheered for Texas. Texas's culture is not dissimilar from our own. (language, cuisine, and respect for Grandma). If Mizzou becomes a part of the SEC and; for instance, plays Clemson or UNC in a non-conference game, I will cheer for the Southern team, not Mizzou. When Missouri comes to play my team, I will not attend. For those that do, enjoy the gel hair, chain necklaces, goatee-rockin culture, and make sure to bring plenty of soda-pop to mix with the Canadian Club… as u watch someone in a hooded sweatshirt backtalk the grandparents at the tailgate.

PeachHead
PeachHead

Hhaahh!! u forgot the backwards fitted caps over the eyebrows...brah. hah The weird thing bout Missouri's that south Missouri is more like ArKansas and west TN, where the north half is so different, esp the metros. For bein a great bball town, St. Louis sure has a lotta bags. Agreed I will not visit Columbia when my team visits (I make most road games) I did see lots of hippies last time there, normally a cool thing.
Biggest problem: when they come to visit Athens, what 'culture' do we have to pick on (Florida-jorts; MState - cowbells; Ole Miss - bowties; LSU -anything cajun)???the place seems cultureless to me.....St. Louis's got the Hill..?Branson sucks? I do like Harry Truman. Need to figure this one out so I'm ready...........at least its not Kansas

Steven
Steven

"(language, cuisine, and respect for Grandma)"
Let me assure you that most Missourians love and respect their parents and grandparents.

As for cuisine: You don't like Biscuits n Gravy, Fried Chicken, Chicken Fried Steak and a nice big T-Bone, porterhouse or KC Stip steak with a Baked Potato smothered with butter and sour cream?

Oh and by the way I think the favorite food in KC at least is Barbecue and we're quite proud of our Baby Back Ribs and heritage as one of the Best BBQ cities in the world..

Give us a chance my friend we will grow on you if you meet the right ones.

Nittany in Ktown
Nittany in Ktown

That's right Robert Evans...you protect the south and the SEC against those yankee infidels....let's face it, the SEC has won all their recent national championships with coaches from the south (Urban Meyer, the Mad Hatter, and even ole Nicky Saban is from the part of Virginia that broke away as a state rather than support the southern side in the Civil War)....they also never get any players from the above the Mason-Dixon line (Sharif Floyd, currently the entire SEC is after Noah Spence, etc.)....you are a righteous defender of the Southern culture and pricde.

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

Hahahh..that was actually really good, and true....made me laugh (and somewhat proud). I would simply like to keep the current culture of the league the way it is, before it turns out like everything else in our 21st century nation of cultureless mush....

at least I still have (currently) have a culture to be a defender of......

Rob
Rob

No matter what happens, I think we'll always have people around who won't let go of the Civil War. It's been over for nearly 150 years and people haven't stopped talking about it yet, so why would they anytime soon? Very unfortunate, imo.

wcnine
wcnine

This post makes me laugh. I grew up in Missouri about 20 from the Ark. border. When I travel to Minnesota they think my accent is from the deep south. Never been to New Jersey but I guess they'd think the same.

StevenBrew
StevenBrew

I got the same thing when I was in Vegas, they thought I was Texan

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

If your team plays Missouri then you won't show up? What kind of fan is that?

Do you show up for a game against a 1-AA team? Do you show up when your team doesn't have a winning record? If Mizzou fans do any of those things then it would seem they fit in the SEC more than you do.

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

I do not go to 1-AA games, I give away my tickets, Tivo the game, and hope they don't upset us. I do go when we don't have a winning record. However; after the last couple Missouri games I went to (see above) I don't want to deal with anything like that again. Might as well go to Oakland to a Raiders-Steelers game....which would probably be a lot of fun actually

ZouGuy3
ZouGuy3

And this is another anti-Mizzou tirade based on nothing but exaggerated nostalgia regarding the definition of the Old South.

I know I am speaking for at least 95% of the Mizzou fans I know (and I currently reside in Kansas City--the supposed last bastion of Big 12 support (which by the way is simply not true, it is just angry Kansas fans creating a smokescreen)), we are thrilled to be joining the SEC and we sure as hell aren't going to be changing the tradition and values of your conference. We are just excited to compete against SEC teams and get out of the mess that is the Big 12.

The fact of the matter is that Missouri is a border state. It is incredibly diverse and your opinion of its culture will vary based on your location within the state. That said, I think this 'not Southern' argument is stupid and exaggerated, it's not like you are inviting a team from Illinois or Wisconsin to join your conference: we border three SEC states that contain four SEC teams.

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

Yes, this is another anti-Mizzou tirade.... It IS like we are inviting a team from Illinois or Wisconsin; Columbia is much more like these places than any of the schools from the 3 states it borders. Mizzou would rather be in the conference that Illinois and Wisconsin are in anyways.....Illinois will now border 2 SEC states.....gotta get that Chicago TV market....

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

I've actually been to Columbia a bunch. My comparison was between Chicago and St. Louis/Kansas City...(we're getting a border state for its urban TV markets...similar to Texas A/M Houston Dallas).

GeoffDawg - I hope your right, since it appears they're gonna be joining. I too have in-laws and a lotta friends that went to Mizzou. They sadly all agree it doesn't fit. Props to Mizzou though for trying to improve and do something different

ZouGuy3
ZouGuy3

I can tell you haven't been in Columbia much if you are comparing it to Chicago or Milwaukee... which I believe you just did.

GeoffDawg
GeoffDawg

Sorry but you're just plain wrong. I've been to Columbia several times and I have in-laws that are Mizzou alum. There are lots of areas of commonality. They'll fit in just fine.

johnmrsec
johnmrsec

Robert Evans...

There are two problems with that line of thinking:

1. Is Kentucky more Southern than Missouri?

2. The names of conferences no longer hold meaning. They are brand names like Pepsi or Kleenex. Thus a 10-team Big 12, a 12-team Big Ten, and a Big East that's trying to stretch across the country. "Southeastern" doesn't matter in the equation with TV dollars now driving the boat.

Thanks for reading,
John

John Bragg
John Bragg

I think that Southernness is part of the SEC brand. How much money is that worth? I don't know, but it's worth something. Taking Missouri as an outlier school doesn't really damage that part of the brand, any more than people mistook other SEC schools for Vanderbilt academically. But there's a reason that the SEC didn't consider Pitt.

With the Pac-12 crossing the Rockies, the Atlantic Coast Conference reaching Pittsburgh and Syracuse, the Big 12 and Big 10 having math problems and the Big East flirting with Boise, the SEC is probably the major conference most in touch with its historic identity. There's something there that would keep the SEC competitive even if somehow you put the best 12 football programs in the rest of the country in a "Coast to Coast Conference".

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

John,

1. Yes, KY is more southern than MO. Bourbon, bluegrass (not strictly southern), and every ad in the state mentions "horse racing and southern hospitatlity"...its their slogan

2. Your point is valid. As long as TV $ is driving the boat, its not about regional identity. Since gumbo and cheese grits are no longer a criteria for SEC admittance, be on the lookout for Southeastern Ontario U to join in 2014...gotta get that Toronto TV market.

Tiger fan
Tiger fan

True, but now that you are (hopefully) adding KC BBQ to the empire, you can officially start the race for 2nd place:)

GeoffDawg
GeoffDawg

With Missouri and Texas, our BBQ empire continues to grow. If we could only get a foothold in North Carolina, we'd practically have a monopoly.

gator
gator

I can't say I've ever seen someone mention Minnesota or Jersey as similar in culture.

Also having experienced "Minnesota Nice" first hand, I can say that while it's different it definitely has some similarities to southern courtesy. If Mizzou fans embody some of that, then good for them.

GeoffDawg
GeoffDawg

Geez, just take your ball and go home I guess...

BTW - Arkansas and Kentucky aren't necessarily southern either. You could even make a cogent argument that Missouri is more southern than the jelly state.

MIZ_SEC
MIZ_SEC

Not at all accurate but solid trolling effort.

guest
guest

Would grandma would be happy with your manors and hospitality? Cheer however you wish Mr Evans, but show some sportsmanship and consider holding off on your aspersions for a spell, the folks in the show me state aren't that bad, maybe time will tell you that.

Robert Evans
Robert Evans

Sadly, I witnessed the grandma scenario laid out above recently at a Mizzou game. I've spent a lot of time in Missouri hunting and Cards games (my gf went to mizzou undergrad; she regretfully agrees w/ me about the culture). There are plenty of good people throughout the state though.
Concerning athletitic competitiveness, I think Mizzou will do quite well. I simply do not believe it fits in with the SEC culture, which is what makes the SEC what it is.

Don't have to agree, this isn't Belarus

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