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Where Does Missouri Fit And Where Do Tiger Fans Want To Go?

Last summer, we dove into the expansion game with a series of reports called “Expounding on Expansion.”  We compared 18 different SEC schools in a number of categories — athletic budget, bowl and NCAA tourney bids over a 20-year period, academic rankings and AAU status, population base, television markets, etc.  We then ranked all 18 schools according to those hard and fast figures.

The number two school on our list of “good” expansion moves for the SEC was Texas A&M, just behind Texas.  And if there were a way to take points off for ego and an inability to get along with others, we have no doubt the Aggies would have bumped the Longhorns from the top spot.

Missouri — a school NO ONE was talking about as an SEC candidate last summer — came in right in the middle of our rankings.  The Tigers bring in everything that everyone has now come to realize matters: big TV markets, a big population base, solid athletics, and a good academic standard to please the presidents doing the voting.

But Missouri angled loudly for a Big Ten berth last year.  No wonder.  A university president would love to partner his institution with an academically-respected conference.  And for those who still don’t get it, the Big Ten’s various academic partnerships (learn more here) enable the average Big Ten school to grab about $500 million per year in research funding.  That’s about five times more cash than the biggest athletic budget in the nation.  So, yes, academics matter.

This summer, there are still many Mizzou fans and administrators who’d like to wait around for a Big Ten berth that may someday come.  Meanwhile, MU chancellor Brady Deaton is serving as the chair of the Big 12′s board of directors and he’s reportedly become the key man in trying to hold the Tigers’ current league together.  And at the same time, Deaton and the MU administration have supposedly been chatting with Mike Slive and the SEC, too… to the point that the school received an informal “if your league blows up, come join us” offer for SEC membership.  The Tiger fans on this site — probably because it’s a site covering the SEC — claim that the majority of Tiger fans want Mizzou to move South, not North in the expansion game.

As we’ve stated, if Missouri does eventually land an SEC bid, it would be the first school to enter the league without offering a full-throated “Hurrah!.”  See Texas A&M if you want an example of what a conference wants to hear from a potential new member.

Trying to gauge Mizzou’s interest in the SEC (and Big 12 and Big Ten) is tricky business.  Luckily, Mike Mitchell — my partner here at MrSEC.com — and our weekend and occasional “Overtime” contributor is a Show Me State product.  Asked why his home state seems so divided, Mike made it clear that that’s always been the nature of Missouri.

I asked him to put his thoughts — as a Missouri native and as someone who still lives part-time in that state — into a quickie post for the site.  Here’s his take on the mixed messages coming from the MU fanbase and administration:

 

Where does Missouri fit in all this expansion talk?  Just about anywhere.  And nowhere.  Maybe because it borders so many states (eight), there’s no consensus in Show-Me country where the Tigers fit best. 

Go to the western part of the state and the rivalry with Kansas dominates.  On the eastern side, Illinois is a natural rival.  Where I grew up in the Missouri bootheel, the television market features a CBS affiliate in Missouri, an ABC station in Illinois and the NBC affiliate broadcasts from Kentucky.  As a child, I watched a lot more Kentucky and SEC basketball games than I ever did of the Missouri Tigers and the old Big 8 (the Paducah, KY station used to pre-empt Saturday Night Live to show tape-delayed broadcasts from Rupp Arena).  In this part of the state, proximity to SEC country is closer than you think.  From the bootheel town of Sikeston – population of about 20,000 – you can be in Oxford, Mississippi just as fast as you can drive to Columbia, Missouri.

For that reason, I suspect many fans in southeast Missouri are sympathetic to a move to the SEC.  Ditto for the southwest part of the state where Springfield (the third largest market in the state after St. Louis and Kansas City) is only about 150 miles from Fayetteville, Arkansas. 

But go north of there and attitudes change. St. Louis media cover Illinois sports. Each year, Mizzou and Illinois play a basketball game in St. Louis.  The Illini represent Mizzou’s biggest non-conference rival.

About four hours west in Kansas City, the rivalry is different but the passions are even deeper.  Disagreements between Missouri and Kansas go back to Civil War days and William Quantrill’s raid on Lawrence.  On the football field, the Missouri-Kansas game is the oldest major college rivalry west of the Mississippi. I suspect many fans on the western side of the state are more interested in preserving an old rivalry than expanding to new territory. 

I was in college at the University of Missouri in 1985 when the St. Louis Cardinals played the Kansas City Royals in the World Series.  Because Columbia is roughly equidistant from the two cities, Sports Illustrated sent a writer to campus.  I recall a quote from a sociology professor who said something to the effect that, “St. Louis looks to the east.  Kansas City looks to the west.” It’s as true today as it was then.

The baseball teams remind me of another complicating factor in all of this: Unlike many SEC states where professional sports only arrived in recent decades, Missouri is dominated by pro sports teams. Both Kansas City and St. Louis have MLB and NFL teams.   The Cardinals have been a part of the National League since 1892.  If there’s a fan base in Missouri that can rival the passion of SEC football fans, that’s the group. In St. Louis, college sports receive second tier status. The Cardinals consume much of the media oxygen.

If you’re expecting consensus from the Missouri crowd on what conference is best, you’re going to be disappointed.  For reasons of history, culture and geography, it’s a divided state on so many issues.  Always has been and, I suspect, always will be.

 

 


47 comments
college hoop fan
college hoop fan

what ever Missouri does. No to the Big Ten. You'd kill one of the great neutral site basketball rivalries with Illinois. The game will not mean as much.

Lindsey
Lindsey

I'm a Mizzou alum living in Chicago...I say get off the sinking ship and leave that mess behind. M-I-Z-S-E-C!

Esteban Noches
Esteban Noches

Great article once again by the guys at mrsec.com, it really sums up the divided nature of the state. However, I'm a current student and the consensus around Columbia appears to SECede!!

MIZ_SEC
MIZ_SEC

Don't be surprised if Brady Deaton steps down in the next 12-24 hours.

Razorback
Razorback

Another great article guys. On a lighter note, I was born in Springfield, Missouri and have always admired the Show-Me State. Having grown-up in Arkansas in a town about 20 miles from the Arky-MO state line , I noticed that the border is the offical demarcation line for a fashion statement not fully embraced by most southerners. Mustaches are totally acceptable on the northern side of the state line!

Razorback

wcnine
wcnine

Missouri is a very divided state. East, West, North, South. Trying to guage the sentiments of the fans is impossible. I get the vibe that the university itself stills is smarting by the Big 10 passover (and my feeling the only way the Big 10 takes Mizzou is if the Bevo conference blows up and the Big 10 takes pity on an AAU school orphaned). I think the school and most of its boosters and fans would love to go to the SEC not only to get away from the trainwreck, but also to thumb their noses at the Big 10.

hoglin
hoglin

I am a Razorback fan living in Southwest MO and loved this post. I may, however, take issue with the idea that people in this region of the state are interested in the UofA. Most everything here seems to be the KC Chiefs and almost nothing else. Any second place would be a tie between OU, KU, and MU. It is amazing how little coverage the Hogs get on the news, merchandise in the stores, etc. This is Big 12 country through and through in the Southwest - that is my impression at least. Ironic since it is about four hour drive to Lawrence, Norman, and Columbia and only ninety minutes to Fayetteville.

MIZ_SEC
MIZ_SEC

Mike spelled it out perfectly in his commentary. It is very difficult for others to understand how divided the state can be at times, simply because of our geographic location. I've seen some comments on here over the past few months claiming that Mizzou doesn't "want" the SEC enough, so the conference should pass on inviting them. But the reality is that we border SEC, Big Ten, and (almost) PAC country, so we are a fit for all three but not a perfect, no brainer fit for any. However, I can GUARANTEE that Mizzou fans would fully embrace an SEC move if we end up there.

MIKEUM
MIKEUM

A lot of people for weeks have been talking about how the Big 10 passed on Missouri last year. While that is true by definition, they were passed over for Nebraska. From a historical and traditional football perspective, what conference would not have done the same thing with only only one slot to fill? And the Big 10 announced they were expanding at the end of 09 so anyone who wanted to be considered needed to speak up, a la Missouri. If you don't apply for the job, you are guaranteed not to get it. A&M stated their desires and made it happen. Therefore I think it is shortsighted to pidgeon hole Missouri based on what went down in 2010. They would be a great addition for any conference, bringing respectable grades in all categories of impact that factor into realignment consideration. Once in the SEC, they will be ecstatic and the Big 10 will be a figment of the past.

Jamie Thornton
Jamie Thornton

I'm fine with MIzzou. I know the Arkansas game would be huge. I just didn't know how passionate the fan base was. I just don't know how hard it would be for Mizzou to get in the SEC. Taking two members of the Big 10 will not look great.

Tyler H
Tyler H

Mizzou alum in Chicago here and yes, we have a large alumni base and everyone seems to be clamoring for the SEC up here. Above everything else we want to be part of a competitive, respected, and great historical conference. Oh yea, and we need to get the he'll away from Texas. If the SEC will have us, I'd be honored to join

kfhonline
kfhonline

John/Mr. SEC,

I think Missouri would be a good add for the SEC. You have an increased footprint (new state) for the SEC and you have the St. Louis, Kansas City TV markets. But what about the Chicago TV market. Chicago is close to Missouri and I am sure alot of people from Missouri go to Chicago for jobs...so would Missouri also add eyeballs in Chicago. They would not be the dominant draw in Chicago, but it looks like they would a significant draw in Chicago and souhern Illinois for the SEC.

Ryan
Ryan

As a Missouri alum I feel that Missouri would be a good fit in the SEC. Let's get over the geographic aspect... I know this is a major sticking point that I see on most message boards though. Welcome to the new landscape of college athletics.

-I think we have a better football program than Ole Miss, MS St., Vandy and UK. We're on par with Ark, SC, Tenn, and possibly UGA. I see us being a middle of the pack football team. We've had 5 players drafted in the first round in the last couple of years, more than most SEC programs. 40 wins over the past 4 years. Only a handful of programs can say the same.

-We'd be a top 3 baskeball program.

-AAU school

I get the vibe that you guys may have a wrong impression of the University of Missouri. From the message boards it sounds like you guys are adding Iowa State or something. I don't get it. Am i missing something obvious here? I just don't think Missouri would "water down" the SEC... All in my opinion.

Steve
Steve

When is enough enough? I still dont understand why Texas thinks they can do whatever they want. Texas is only popular in TEXAS. They aren't Notre Dame and have a national following. Why would another league take them and the baggage they carry. I am so afraid that next year the spot will not be on the table. I dont think Missouri will be a dominant force in Football in the SEC, but as long as Pinkel is still recruiting in Texas, it will be a QB factory and every few years will be as good as the top quarter. In basketball (if they can get back to the way they used to be) they will always be competitive in the SEC. It would be fun but probably isnt going to happen.

John
John

With regards to the Virginia schools, I meant ACC.

miz
miz

Missouri born, MU Grad, college professor living in the southeast. The SEC is more than football, the population and academic focus are headed here in droves

John
John

Mizzou stinks and it would cheapen the conference if we add them. Yes, Ole Miss, State, and Vandy are worse but they are founding members and we can't do anything with them. We are looking for a below-par #14 because either FSU won't come or Florida is blocking them. VT isn't coming because they owe UVA big time political capital for getting them into the SEC to begin with. NC State is an interesting case, but is probably Mizzou level in all sports. WVU is a bad school, hard to get to, and wouldn't have nearly the record they have if they played an SEC schedule every year. Watch what LSU does to them on Saturday. Slive said he could get to 16 teams in 15 minutes. Looks like the only guaranteed quality team was #13. Either way, the SEC has the athletes, therefore the wins, therefore the money to continue to dominate. It's just a matter of which one out of Mizzou, WVU, or NC State lucks out and gets a numbers-dictated invitation.

That being said, this site has had EXCELLENT coverage of this entire frustrating expansion mess. Yes, I know it's extremely frustrating, especially with the Pac-12 making midnight announcements about not adding more members, etc. MrSEC is the go-to source for SEC news, that cannot be questioned.

Bob
Bob

Excellent take on Missouri. I just read the comments on the St. Louis Post Dispatch's website and it seems that the consensus overwhelmingly is to leave the Big 12 and go to the SEC. Mizzou has to go to the SEC if there is indeed an informal offer. Why would they want to stay in the mess of the Big 12? Missouri has a great program and it deserves to be among equals, in revenue at least, as it could have in the SEC. The egos of Texas and Oklahoma are insufferable. Mizzou and its fan deserve far better than to deal with this nonsense. The SEC is an awesome conference and if Missouri decided to go to the SEC the buzz in the state and its fans would be amazing. It is completely beyond logic why they wouldn't go. I hope they man up and jump in full force.

JEH
JEH

Well said. But one consensus you can find is that 100% of us hate the Longhorn Network.

Chris
Chris

I'm not from Missouri, but how can a state that borders Iowa and Arkansas, Kentucky and Nebraska not be conflicted as to where it belongs. Moreover, its two major cities are on the opposite borders of the State. So it seems that what will win out is who can have the most influence within those neighboring States. It now stands at Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois are Big 10, and Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas are SEC, while Kansas and Oklahoma are Big Whatever. But if the SEC wants to expand, and it wants Oklahoma, and Missouri, why not take Kansas to make it more palatable to the Kansas City crowd? That gets you to 16, Kansas and Mizzou are both AAU, and Oklahoma is the powerhouse. Why not make this offer, and if they refuse because of the also rans, then so be it. Don't get me wrong, I think the Big Whatever will eventually implode, so the SEC doesn't need to force an up or down vote now. But why not have this as the goal?

Ryan
Ryan

Why would he step down? Maybe the AD, Mike Alden.

MIZ_SEC
MIZ_SEC

If that happens, it will be the key indicator that Mizzou to the SEC is still very much alive.

UofA72
UofA72

Right on target. I'm in northern Arkansas, and our local TV networks are Springfield, Mo The coverage is mostly Missouri pro teams, high school sports, and Missouri State, in that order. There is very little Mizzou coverage and even less Arkansas.

I'm afraid that state wide tv sets added for Mizzou is a myth.

Ryan
Ryan

I can't find the article, but I think Missouri's fan base with the highest amount of alum are:

1. St. Louis
2. Kansas City
3. Dallas/Ft. Worth
4. Chicago
5. LA
6. NYC

I could be off a bit though...

Charles
Charles

As a northwest Tennessee resident having spent 6 years in Columbia, MO, I can say that you don't have to get far south of St. Louis in Missouri or in Illinois to be in "the South." Illinois south of Carbondale and Missouri just a little bit south of St. Louis considers itself more southern than midwestern. The Ozarks make up the southern half of Missouri, and the agricultural culture in these areas is more southern in what it grows than midwestern. So yes, Illinois and Chicago, which does have a tremendous amount of Mizzou alums, would be a TV market draw. And, in Missouri, you have Calloway County just south of Columbia which has never officially rejoined the union after it sided with the south during the Civil War.

rmft
rmft

Chicago has rooting interests Northwestern, Illinois, and a little school called Notre Dame

2 Big Tens and an NBC

maybe I'm wrong but I'd have a hard time believing Mizzou fans make up enough of a percentage of Chicago Football fans to make a difference. You have to remember, Missouri isn't the only state that sends people to Chicago for work. The entire Midwest does that

oh yeah, and of course there's always... DA BEARS

johnmrsec
johnmrsec

Ryan...

I wouldn't take offense. There's a certain element of the population -- North, South, East and West -- that like to put everyone else down. It's the same kind of person who likes to be rude when fans of other schools visit his school's campus.

Besides, there's a lot of hatred in the SEC when it comes to rivalries. If Mizzou gets in, it's fans will pick up on that real quick.

The difference between the SEC and all other leagues, however? SEC fans band together when it's their league against the world. They may not like one another, but they'll stand together when insulted by outsiders. As a Big 12 alum, it's an esprit de corps that will shock you. Especially when it comes to interactions on the university administration level.

Thanks for reading the site,
John

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

Mizzou would immediately be one of the better bball teams in the SEC. There are not a lot of SEC schools that have made a commitment to basketball.

RollTide90
RollTide90

We get it John, you have an irrational and illogical hatred of Mizzou. Is Mizzou on the level of 'Bama in football? No. Is it a wonderful all-around addition to any conference? Certainly. It is stronger academically than most SEC schools, it is one of few schools with both a football and basketball program that rank in the top 30 annually for revenue generated (and one of only a handful of athletic programs to turn a profit last year). It brings two sizable television markets into the SEC and expands its footprint westward. Its football program could certainly survive in the SEC. You also fail to mention that its basketball program would have the potential to win the SEC (if not for Kentucky and sometimes Florida) any given year. Your shortsighted analysis reeks of hatred and mentions only totally irrelevant statistics and biases that no conference on earth cares about when considering a school for expansion.

Charles
Charles

Mizzou has a better record in football against the SEC (16-9 or something like that). They beat Ole Miss a few years ago and Arkansas quite handily in a bowl game when Arkansas was ranked and had the top running back in the country. aTm has not dominated Mizzou over the last several years in anything--so I don't know where you get the idea that Mizzou is a step down from aTm, and when has NC-State been relevant since the Jimmy V days? So I don't know where you get the NC-State/Mizzou comparison. Academically, Mizzou outstrips all but Vandy and Florida and probably Georgia in the SEC. Yes, LSU, 'Bama, Auburn some years, Florida, and perhaps Tennessee if they can get their act together, will beat Mizzou most years, but I would put Mizzou's chances at finishing bowl eligible much better most years than aTm, Kentucky, Arkansas, South Carolina, Vandy, and the Mississippi teams. That puts them closer to the top of the SEC than the bottom.

I'd love for Mizzou to go to a stable conference like the SEC where competition is always fierce. However, I can also see them waiting and hoping the Big12 works or, better yet, that the B1G asks them to the dance again in one of the following years. Geographically it makes pretty good sense, but culturally I agree with the article--Mizzou is more like an Illinois when it comes to the relationship between pro and college sports and its fans. Maybe an SEC schedule would change that about the "Show Me" state?

rmft
rmft

I think at this point thats the national consensus as well

Steve
Steve

You forgot one thing. KU will not go anywhere without K-state. OU will go nowhere withour Okie state. As a Missouri fan (I am north ofi Kansas City) and I think it is time to cut bait and go to SEC if possible. We are all sick of this. The problem with the big 12 is that there are Texas schools that bring their arrogance to the table. If UT doesnt agree to do like all other conferences, I say vote them out. They think everybody wants them and all they have done is bully everyone because they have all the money. At what point will Gary Pinkel or Bill Self (almost) that he wants at this point, and doing this ego dance with Texas every year is embarrassing. Missouri needs to say no revenue sharing, then we are leaving. I dont care what the buyout is in the big 12. If they dont go now, a spot may not be there next time.

AllTideUp
AllTideUp

I think this is it exactly. SEC schools have a lot in common, but I have to believe it is the Southern culture that ties so many people together. It is all too common to hear people from across the country put Southerners down and display it seems a veracity to maintain the old stereotypes. People from all over the country do this to some degree, but in our case it seems that we get it from all sides. And yes we can't ignore the roots of these types of cultural attitudes dating back to the Civil War era although certainly the dynamics have changed since then.

And most people outside of the South probably don't understand that college football was one of the first ways to show people from other parts of the country that "we're just as good as you are." So it's no wonder that SEC fans still get a kick out of beating schools from other leagues especially in other parts of the country. It's just the way most of us have been raised in all honesty. It's very interesting to read the history of Alabama's trip to the Rose Bowl in 1926. Radios all over the South were tuned into the game both in homes and in theaters to give more access to those who didn't own radios. On the train ride home the Bama team was greeted with throngs of cheering people at every stop they made once back in the South. They weren't Bama fans either, just Southerners reveling in the victory. It's not quite like that today, but you get my point.

One of these days that will probably fade away as the country becomes increasingly more homogenous, but for now it still remains. Speaking purely of culture, I hope though that we never lose our Southern identity regardless of how we view football.

Ryan
Ryan

Yeah, my rationale is that if this is the way college athletics is going, Missouri wouldn't be the end of the world. But I agree, I may not understand the passion and camaraderie.

Enjoy your site. Take care.

John
John

How many BCS bowls has Mizzou been to? I'm thinking ZERO. Tennessee has, Arkansas has, Auburn has, Florida has, LSU has, Alabama has...that's half the conference. How many national championships has Mizzou won in football in the BCS era? I'm thinking ZERO. Tennessee has, Alabama has, Auburn has, LSU has (twice), Florida has (twice). How many national championships has Mizzou won in basketball? Florida has (twice), Kentucky has, Arkansas has. And let's not forget, Charles, that Mizzou has not won anything playing a WEAKER schedule than any SEC team. So you can point to single games in single years, and make the argument that Mizzou is as good as a mediocre SEC team RIGHT NOW, but historically the Tigers have been garbage, and there's no reason to think that will change. You just underestimate what SEC football is like week in and week out. Ask Oklahoma and Texas, teams that have been owned by the SEC champs in the title game. And you can't even beat them!

Chris
Chris

Even if Kansas is left out, entirely? I read some posts last week saying that Kansas and Kstate can operate independently, even though they have the same board of regents. I don't understand this. But it seems to me that if you say Kansas its you for #16 or we go elsewhere, wouldn't Kansas have to take it?

Stevenbrew
Stevenbrew

Your dog just die? Sorry to hear that. Mizzou has been to Fiesta, Sugar(2) and Orange(4) bowls when they meant something. Today they mean very little as a 4 loss team can play in one. You need to look at whether a team is good enough to play in a bcs game not if they do. Also Ou and Texas finish top 2 in the SEC those years they played in the title games & I recall Texas lost the best player on the team early on in that title game. As far as how I think Mizzou would do in the SEC in 2011. Football 4-8 but Franklin & Marcus Lucas get better as the year goes and maybe they do better. Pinkels recruiting has been improving, he got Mizzou ranked #1 with 3 star recruits now hes getting more 4-5 than before so should be a bright future. . Hoops 2-5. Baseball been down the last 2 years since the entire starting lineup and our aces got drafted the 2 years before but finished strong last year as one of the hottest teams in the Big12 before losing to A&M in the BIG12Championship game. I think our recruiting improves in the SEC and I feel a return to the College World Series is a definite possibility as we have been close a couple times under Jamieson. ANOTHER National Title in baseball possibly.

MIZ_SEC
MIZ_SEC

BCS at-large bids are extremely political, and hardly a proper way to evaluate a football program's success. In 2007 Missouri was passed up by a number of teams ranked below them - two of which they beat that season (Illinois and kansas) - for BCS bids. Mizzou finished that season ranked #4 in the country.

You clearly have an agenda though, so carry on with your illogical ranting.

steve
steve

Hey ding dong, you dont really need another LSU or Florida in your conference anyways.

John
John

So in other words, Arkansas has been to more BCS games in the last calendar year than Mizzou has been in EVER? Wasn't that kinda my point? And Mizzou hasn't even managed a single appearance in the 13 years of the BCS system (in a weaker conference), meanwhile SEVEN SEC teams have? Tennessee has been to ONLY two? Isn't that two more than the Tigers? I know that the coach has a lot to do with it, but I think Charles was trying to argue that Mizzou would be competitive immediately. There is simply no reason to think that.

johnmrsec
johnmrsec

John...

I think you might want to temper the BCS comparisons. Technically, Arkansas has been to one more BCS bowl than Missouri and that was just last year. Tennessee has been to just two BCS bowls total and none since 1999.

Folks mocked the inclusion of South Carolina 20 years ago, but now that they have the right coach, USC's no longer a joke. Arkansas has gone to another level with Bobby Petrino, too. It's all about the right coach. Even in the SEC.

John

John
John

And another thing...

You think you can compete in Olympic sports? Bc I'm pretty sure Arkansas wins it all in men's and women's track every year, plus Tennessee on occasion in indoor men's and outdoor women's track. And of course you have the Auburn dynasty in swimming/diving. But you're good at baseball you say? Well the SEC has three in a row in that, too. But Mizzou has a good gymnastics program? Dang, looks like Alabama/Georgia are alternating in that every year! Party schools? SEC domination. Good looking women? Dang, SEC again. So consider yourself lucky you're even being considered. But hey, at least you won that one football game against Ole Miss! You're either the academically superior Miss State, or the academically inferior Vandy. Show Me some facts otherwise, Chuck.

John
John

I forgot Georgia, they've certainly been in the BCS. And I haven't even mentioned South Carolina, the defending East champs...what makes you think Mizzou would be anything other than an academically better Mississippi State? Because that's what you are in the Big 12. Even the Big Ten didn't want you. You may luck out and get an SEC invite to make the numbers round, but just wait til you're 4-8 in football and NIT-bound every year in basketball. Get a grip.

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